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Royal lac finish
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Author:  PeterF [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:58 am ]
Post subject:  Royal lac finish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnYD1n41 ... ata_player

I have just been made aware of this product in Robbie O'Briens newsletter. He recommends it very highly as it has the look, feel and ease of application of shellac, but the toughness and longevity of a polyester finish. It can be brushed, padded or sprayed on and can be polished out to a very high gloss.
Unfortunately it is not available in the UK at this time, but I have been in contact with the manufacturer and they can ship it over here in large quantities at a reasonable cost. So to any UK or European luthiers here, would you be interested?

I hope this doesn't count as unauthorized advertising... :?
Author:  Colin North [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Might be interested to try it.
Don't want to pour cold water on the idea, but a few questions which others may want to ask ask as well.
What sort of cost are we looking at? With import duties and local(ish) distribution this will of course mount up.
Which colour, or can a mixture be ordered?
Would Seal-lac be part of the order? (Assume nothing!)
If minimum 1 pint containers, 2 lb cut, I can see shelf life could be a problem, at least for amateurs like me.
Others may chip with things I haven't thought of.
Author:  Joe Sallis [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
I would be interested. Let us know when you have more solid information of cost etc.
And I agree with Colin's concerns.
Author:  Bob Orr [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
I would be interested too, one of sealer and of blonde.

Cheers, Bob
Author:  PeterF [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Colin North wrote:
Might be interested to try it.
Don't want to pour cold water on the idea, but a few questions which others may want to ask ask as well.
What sort of cost are we looking at? With import duties and local(ish) distribution this will of course mount up.
Which colour, or can a mixture be ordered?
Would Seal-lac be part of the order? (Assume nothing!)
If minimum 1 pint containers, 2 lb cut, I can see shelf life could be a problem, at least for amateurs like me.
Others may chip with things I haven't thought of.

Thanks for the questions. I will get back as soon as I have the answers and can work out a fixed price. I am only looking into it at this stage - obviously I won't be able to do it if the costs are too high. I do think that here in the UK we are seriously lacking in wood finishing options, though, compared to the US.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
That depends on what this Royal Lac contains. If it's shellac just laced with another synthetic resin, there are folk who sell that kind of thing here in the UK. Sometimes used as floor varnish.
Author:  ntredwell [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 11:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
I may also be interested depending on the costs
Author:  PeterF [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Sorry guys I'm afraid its not going to be economical to do it. Local shipping of hazardous goods this side of the Atlantic would push the costs too high.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Is this that same laquer that the guy who sold it was claiming that it improved the tonal qualties of everything it touched, including compact discs?
Seriously, some guy was claiming that laquering the circuit board of the cd player inmprovd the tone, and that laquering the cd would improve the clarity of the cd.
Author:  Michiyuki Kubo [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Bummer. If anyone finds anything similar like that in eu say it here.
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
Is this that same laquer that the guy who sold it was claiming that it improved the tonal qualties of everything it touched, including compact discs?
Seriously, some guy was claiming that laquering the circuit board of the cd player inmprovd the tone, and that laquering the cd would improve the clarity of the cd.


Would that be the legendary and miraculous C37?

Alex
Author:  Pmaj7 [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Looks interesting, I doubt if it's as awesome as C37, but I would like to hear how it turns out if anybody tries it!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
I just used it to update a French polish finish on one of my older guitars. I just used the normal procedure for French polishing, and it worked quite well. It glazes out really well. I didn't take any pictures, but there were a number of nail marks on the top, which pumice filled quite easily using the Royal Lac, also a nail mark that I made when I thought I could just do a quick pass below the bridge without my gloves and liners! [headinwall] gaah
It seems like a nice product.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Alex Kleon wrote:
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
Is this that same laquer that the guy who sold it was claiming that it improved the tonal qualties of everything it touched, including compact discs?
Seriously, some guy was claiming that laquering the circuit board of the cd player inmprovd the tone, and that laquering the cd would improve the clarity of the cd.


Would that be the legendary and miraculous C37?

Alex


Yes! Invented by the world famous Dieter Ennemoser! C37 Lack
Author:  WilliamS [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Hey Waddy, any thoughts on the toughness claim of the cured product or is it too soon to tell? I'm a little skeptical of the claim of it being comparable to polyester or urethane.
I used U-beaut on one instrument and it seemed like OK stuff. I had to tweak my technique a touch as it didn't act exactly like my home made spirit varnish that I French polish with but it did cure harder, quicker-I'd say probably close to nitro...but not polyester.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
I don't really know about hardness. I have used U-Beaut, and it was fine, as far as I can tell. I know another builder that uses it exclusively, and really has been happy with it. I can't compare yet. I just got my Royal-Lac last week, and experimented over the weekend a bit, renewing an old finish, which didn't take a lot of work. My point was, that it can be used just like regular shellac in a "French polishing" process. I do not call applying shellac with a brush, spray or pad in layers, and buffing out, French polish. Others do call it that. What I call French polish is using a muneca/fad(or whatever you call it) with pressure, working it into the surface, then glazing with a lighter mix of shellac and alcohol, to achieve the gloss. Preferably without the use of abrasives other than pumice for filling and working out rough spots. When you wipe or brush or spray it on, sand it down, and buff it out, it's just a shellac finish. Not saying one is better or worse, just saying I would refuse to call the latter French polish.

"French polish
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

French polishing is a wood finishing technique that results in a very high gloss surface, with a deep colour and chatoyancy. French polishing consists of applying many thin coats of shellac dissolved in alcohol using a rubbing pad lubricated with oil. The rubbing pad is made of absorbent cotton or wool cloth wadding inside a square piece of fabric (usually soft cotton cloth) and is commonly referred to as a fad,[1] also called a rubber,[2] tampon,[2] or muñeca, Spanish for "rag doll".[3]

"French polish" is a process, not a material. The main material is shellac, although there are several other shellac-based finishes, not all of which class as French polishing.

The finish is considered by many to be a beautiful way to finish highly figured wood, but it is also recognised to be fragile. It is softer than modern varnishes and lacquers and is particularly sensitive to spills of water or alcohol, which often produce white cloudy marks. However, it is also simpler to repair than a damaged varnish finish, as patch repairs to French polish may be easily blended into an existing finish."

I'm just saying that lots of folks are calling a shellac finish, French polish, when, by definition, it is not the same. I say call it what it is, not what you wish it was.
Author:  WendyW [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Waddy, have you tried it with any oil yet?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Yes, I do use a bit of oil when I'm doing French polish. I mostly use EV olive oil. Used to use Walnut oil, but really can't see the advantage, and Olive oil seems to work better for me. I spirit off after groups of sessions anyway. I do not add oil every time I add shellac and alcohol, though, maybe, just every 3rd time or so. Depends on how stuff feels. If it gets sticky, I put a half drop or so on the next load.
Author:  matt jacobs [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Waddy, did you bother with the seal-lac?
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Not on the guitar I was renewing the finish on.

I have been experimenting with it on a piece of scrap Walnut though, and just for fun put 6 coats of Seal lac, playing around. I even put one coat on and then took an alcohol soaked rag and dragged it cross grain to force the stuff into the pores. Seemed to work. The 6 coats nearly filled the pores after sanding back close to the wood, but without sanding through. I sanded back with 400 grit after second coats, then with 1500 MicroMesh wet after the last coats. to get it back to level. I was pleasantly surprised at the filling qualities of the Seal-lac. Not sure though if it will shrink back. More filling would be needed for a smooth surface though. I was just playing around to see what happened. I have two coats of Royal-lac on now, will sand back and put a couple more tomorrow.
Author:  matt jacobs [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
Thanks for the info Waddy. Let us know how everything works out.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Royal lac finish
I recommend going to the shellac finishes website and watching Robbie's video. Really shows the whole process on a real guitar.
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